Report - Plane wrecks in the Brecon Beacons - March and May 2018

[Bertie Bollockbrains]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Just for an update, my research has now identified a further 23 sites with extant wreckage in addition to the 11 featured in this report, all within the Brecon Beacons area and I have worked out the relavant Grid references. To that end a second report will be coming along shortly.

On a sad note, when I put up this report, I was in two minds as to whether to publish the Grid References. I decided not to in the end and I'm glad that I made that decision as I am now aware of pieces of these very same planes being sold on eBay by a single eBay user. Note only an offence against the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 but a breach of eBay's own policy on selling mementos from disaster sites. Be assured this user, who I am NOT saying is connected to this site and I can almost guarantee is nothing to do with the exploring community, has been reported. As a ex-serviceman myself from a military family this has really saddened me and I regard this as being no different to desecrating the local war memorial in the town square.

Let's finish on a happier note. Thanks once again for the replies and like many here, I too never knew so much was in the Beacons area.

 

[zosouk]

excellent stuff

 

[Bertie Bollockbrains]

Just want to update my own report as I have discovered one that I could not find last year and wanting to present a complete record.

Number 10 above, Avro Anson L9149 lying on Fan Brycheinog - I said that I only found one small piece of metal in 2018. Well I have just found out that the wreckage, which was lying on a steep scree slope, has at some point been gathered up and made into a memorial at the top of the scree slope right next to the impact crater. I did not know this last year, so was looking in the wrong place.

Well I was in the area again last month (for the lake on the mountain is probably my favourite wild camping and swimming spot) and I looked in the right place. So here goes...

10. Avro Anson L9149, Fan Brycheinog - July 2019
On the 17th January 1939, Avro Anson L9149 was being used for navigation and observers training flying by the Southampton Training Aviation Company based at Hamble. The plan had been to fly to Coventry via Cardiff, but the aircraft ran into thick cloud and rain and lost radio contact. Consequently, lost and disorientated, it flew into the ground to the south of Fan Brycheiniog at 770m. The crew comprised of pilot Flt Off R N Coombes; aircraftsmen M Mabbot and two civilians, John MacDonald and L A Prescott. The pilot and aircraftsmen were badly injured and trapped inside the plane. Prescott went for help and raised the alarm at Tir y Cwm farm. The rescue party searched all night, but did not locate the plane until 6am the next day, by which time Mabbot had died from his injuries and exposure. MacDonald was able to walk down after receiving first aid. Combes was carried down in a parachute and transported to Swansea hospital, but died soon after. A plaque was erected in Callwen Churchyard by the Company to commemorate the crewmen who lost their lives and the local people who undertook the rescue in appalling weather conditions.

A few stones has been piled together to form a cairn 1m in diameter and 0.4m high at the approximate location of the crash, and there are melted lumps of aluminium, a few bolts and small airframe pieces. The adjoining hollow measures about 5m by 3m and is assumed to represent the point of impact of the aircraft.

The Avro Anson - a British twin-engined plane developed in the mid-1930s and initially used for maritime reconnaisance operations. However by the time of the Second World War it was found to be obsolete for front-line combat roles and was used as a trainer. It remained in use as a trainer by the RAF until 1968. A single Avro Anson remains airworthy, based in New Zealand.

 

[xexxa]

Not wanting to sound like an idiot, but why don't they remove the wrecks?

 

[Bertie Bollockbrains]

I supposed the obvious answer is that, from my own experience, is that some of these take hours to walk to, extremely difficult to find and vehicular access impossible. Most have been cleared away completely. What's left is just a small handful of all the plane wrecks that occured in the war (over 10000) and my best guess is that there is probably in the region of 700-1000 left in the whole country. The guide book that I use documents just over 500 wrecks that are still extant. I have visted some that are not in that book hence my 700-1000 estimate. These remaining plane wrecks are not lying conveniently on any footpaths.

During the war, they had Military Recovery Units to seek out this wrecks. I think the MRUs were active until the 1960s. They would had cleared human remains and personal effects at least very quickly, and I guess there would had been an operational need to recover spare parts for cannabilisation onto other planes. MRU Shrewsbury is one unit I keep hearing about, but that's because my walking is in Wales. Other MRUs would had covered other regions.

Wikipedia tells me that "during the 1970s there was a rapid growth in excavation of the crash sites of military aircraft. These were sometimes carried out by interested amateur souvenir hunters, and sometimes by more serious prospectors of valuable military artefacts. The rights and wrongs of this activity was confused by conflicting statements from the Ministry of Defence, who, in 1973 stated that they had abandoned all claim to crashed planes and that any of official interest had been recovered. Later on they reversed this position, claiming Crown title of both RAF and German wrecks and stating that any excavation required official permission, issuing guidelines and threatening that excavation without such permission was illegal interference with Crown Property. Excavations continued however, and several incidents involving the discovery of human remains and live ordnance (along with concerns about divers and shipwrecks) led to the passing of the Protection of Military Remains Act in 1986."

Right now these plane wrecks are protected sites under the Protection of Military Remains Act of 1986 which makes it illegal to tamper with these wrecks unless with permission and under licence from the MOD. Not aware of any prosecutions and the parliament.gov.uk website tells me there has been no prosecutions under this act between 2010 and 2016, but on a similiar theme, scuba divers most definately have been convicted of tampering with military shipwrecks, which are protected under the Protection of Wrecks Act 1973 at least.

 

[xexxa]

I supposed the obvious answer is that, from my own experience, is that some of these take hours to walk to, extremely difficult to find and vehicular access impossible. Most have been cleared away completely. What's left is just a small handful of all the plane wrecks that occured in the war (over 10000) and my best guess is that there is probably in the region of 700-1000 left in the whole country. The guide book that I use documents just over 500 wrecks that are still extant. I have visted some that are not in that book hence my 700-1000 estimate. These remaining plane wrecks are not lying conveniently on any footpaths.

During the war, they had Military Recovery Units to seek out this wrecks. I think the MRUs were active until the 1960s. They would had cleared human remains and personal effects at least very quickly, and I guess there would had been an operational need to recover spare parts for cannabilisation onto other planes. MRU Shrewsbury is one unit I keep hearing about, but that's because my walking is in Wales. Other MRUs would had covered other regions.

Wikipedia tells me that "during the 1970s there was a rapid growth in excavation of the crash sites of military aircraft. These were sometimes carried out by interested amateur souvenir hunters, and sometimes by more serious prospectors of valuable military artefacts. The rights and wrongs of this activity was confused by conflicting statements from the Ministry of Defence, who, in 1973 stated that they had abandoned all claim to crashed planes and that any of official interest had been recovered. Later on they reversed this position, claiming Crown title of both RAF and German wrecks and stating that any excavation required official permission, issuing guidelines and threatening that excavation without such permission was illegal interference with Crown Property. Excavations continued however, and several incidents involving the discovery of human remains and live ordnance (along with concerns about divers and shipwrecks) led to the passing of the Protection of Military Remains Act in 1986."

Right now these plane wrecks are protected sites under the Protection of Military Remains Act of 1986 which makes it illegal to tamper with these wrecks unless with permission and under licence from the MOD. Not aware of any prosecutions and the parliament.gov.uk website tells me there has been no prosecutions under this act between 2010 and 2016, but on a similiar theme, scuba divers most definately have been convicted of tampering with military shipwrecks, which are protected under the Protection of Wrecks Act 1973 at least.

Well, that settles that, then! Thank you!